I hope you got a chance to read the excellent, balanced cover story in Time Magazine entitled “Does God Want You to Be Rich?” The cover description says: “Yes, say some megachurches. Others call it heresy. The debate over the new gospel of wealth.”
Seriously — how did the Evangelical church get here?
The basic movement of the gospel is clear (Phil. 2:5ff): self-denial and self-sacrifice rather than self-fulfillment. We follow one who had no place to lay his head, who warned us that life does not consist in the abundance of things, who told a wealthy man to sell all and give to the poor, who insisted that we cannot have two masters (God and $$). Followers of Christ in other cultures have often lost all as a result of their faithfulness to him.
But walk into Christian bookstores and there is a different gospel. The gospel of Joel Osteen.
And does it sell! Your Best Life Now has sold over 4 million copies. It finds a welcome audience in the consumerism of America.
The authors of the article write:
“What remains is a materialism framed in a kind of Tony Robbins positivism. No one exemplifies this better than Osteen, who ran his father’s television-production department until John died in 1999. ‘Joel has learned from his dad, but he has toned it back and tapped into basic, everday folks’ ways of talking,’ says Ben Phillips, a theology professor at the Soutwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. That language is reflected in Your Best Life Now, an extraordinarily accessible exhortation to this-world empowerment through God. ‘To live your best life now,’ it opens, to see ‘your business taking off. See your marriage restored. See your family prospering. See your dreams come to pass . . .’ you must ’start looking through the eyes of faith.’ Jesus is front and center but not his Crucifixion, Resurrection or Atonement.”
Does that tell us something?
The book is full of “illustrations of how the Prosperity doctrine has produced personal gain, most memorably, perhaps, for the Osteen family: how Victoria’s ’speaking words of faith and victory’ eventually brought the couple their dream house; how Joel discerned God’s favor in being bumped from economy to business class.”
Insightfully, the authors go on to talk about the basic for criticism of this Prosperity Lite movement: “Most unnerving for Osteen’s critics is the suspicion that they are fighting not just one idiosyncratic misreading of the gospel but something more daunting: the latest lurch in Protestantism’s ongoing descent into full-blown American materialism.”
Rick Warren, who by his words and life is becoming an incredible leader in the worldwide church, said: “This idea that God wants everybody to be wealthy? Baloney. It’s creating a false idol. You don’t measure your self-worthy by your net worth.”
Ron Sider, author of Rich Christians in a Hungry World: “They have neglected the texts about the danger of riches. Prosperity Gospel Lite is one of the most powerful forms of neglect of the poor.”
And Ben Witherington, an incredible Evangelical New Testament scholar at Asbury Seminary: “We need to renounce the false gospel of wealth and health — it is a disease of our American culture: it is not a solution or answer to life’s problems.”
The “internet monk” (Michael Spencer) has written:
“He’s being sold to us by people who want to make money off his success, and they are counting on us to be sheep, ‘baaing’ quietly, but going along to the slaughter. Any analysis of Joel Osteen’s theology is going to have a hard time saying he is proclaiming the Christian message. The most popular preacher in Christianity is proclaiming a theology that is neither Christian, nor Jewish, nor Muslim, but is pragmatically pagan. Pagan in the sense of finding ways to gain the favor of god so he will do good things for you. Manipulating the deity to give you blessings. This is the ultimate example of Luther’s ‘theology of glory’ chosen over the ‘theology of the cross.’ I would rather a non-Christian hear John Shelby Spong a hundred times than hear this. Spong denies it all- outright. Osteen is presented as a Christian, but his message isn’t going to bring you to Christ, the Kingdom or heaven. It’s spiritual cyanide disguised as candy. If there is a hell, Osteen’s message won’t stop you or the people you love from going there, because the savior in his messages is YOU and the salvation he offers is a NEW ATTITUDE, and some resulting real estate. The question becomes, will evangelicals do anything? Will they say anything? Will they register their objections to Osteen’s reshaping of the Reformation gospel into a positive thinking message that makes Robert Schuller look like John Calvin in comparison?”
Yesterday I listened to Dan McVey talk about the advancement of Islam in North America. It is the fastest-growing religion in North America. (On a global scale, protestant Christianity is by far the fastest growing religion, however. It outpaces Islam in growth by 3-1, I believe Dan said.) In this culture of ease and consumerism, Islam offers a faith of discipline and serious devotion. Of course, Christianity does too (along with a framework of grace and a God who has come near in Christ) — just not in the versions that have become so popular in “Christian” bookstores.
Yes. God does desire for me to be rich. Rich in the essence of allowing His spirit to guide my life. Rich In Him indwelling my heart. Rich in the knowledge of Him. Rich in my relationship with Him. The result of my desiring, yearning to be “rich” in this sense, will be an overflowing, overwhelming love, care, and concern for my fellowman.
In life, I have been materialy “poor”, materialy “weathly”…at present; I am materialy balanced. It has been a long hard road of God refining me to bring my focus off of the riches in the world…to the focus of the richness and wealth of Him and His Kingdom.
The refining process continues…….may my heart continue to be broken, and open because the world is a constant temptation
I think two things are important as we face interpretations of Scripture which would have us welcome wealth instead of fear the consequences of it. 1. Community interpretation. When we interpret the Bible in true community (true community is diverse community), then we won’t be able to accept a health and wealth gospel because we will be reading with strong Christian people who are not healthy or wealthy and we will have to confront why they are not. 2. Good preaching. What Olsteen does is not preaching. It is motivational speaking. There is a big difference. Good preaching is so grounded in all of Scripture - the hard parts as well as the easy parts, that a preacher can’t help but give a more rounded picture of the reality of poverty for most of the Christians throughout the world and throughout history.
Christianity should not be an easy life. If it is, we are in a lot of danger.
Even though you may not be rich and may be a good person and avoid the big bad things in life, are you living for the Lord or are you just wasting your life? John Piper has a great book entitled “Don’t waste your life”. It’s a great read and deals with things like this.
I read that article just as I was beginning a series with our teens on the Sermon on the Mount and watching Rob Bell’s Nooma video called “Rich.” I’ve had to come to terms with what I have and don’t have. I’ve had to face the fact that though I’ve never considered myself rich, I am. I’ve had to the own up to the fact that I need to be more diligent in devoting my resources to the mission of God rather than the mission of Chad.
It’s funny…I grew up in a small house (only about 1100 sqft) with only 1 bathroom for the 5 of us and I shared a bedroom with my Brother.
Contrast that to todays world in which people have 2 if not 3 bathrooms and each kid has a room. Some people would not even consider having their kids share a room or only having 1 bathroom.
Right now in Memphis there is trouble brewing at Bellevue Baptist Church, the flagship Southern Baptist church, over the leadership of its new Pastor who replaced the beloved late Adrian Rogers. In the course of the article in the local paper there was a denial that the new pastor’s salary was “somewhat less” that $500,000 dollars a year. I would have loved to have heard the words “nowhere near” instead of “somewhat less” than $500.000. Something is wrong, and it does seem to play right into the hearts of American materialism. I remember the “Prayer of Jabez” fad, and our people seemed to flock to it as quickly as any other group. Great post. I can only imagine the reaction of Larry James.
Since when does taking up a cross and going into the world make you rich? It sure hasn’t happened to me. Oh, I see it all around me but I don’t understand it.
I had an elder light into me a few years ago when I didn’t buy into that philosophy. He was really into the Prayer of Jabez and enlarging his territory. He was really hot on that till he lost his job and had a big reversal in his life. He had to rethink things then.
I read that article last week. It reminded me why I can hardly walk into a Christian bookstore without tossing my cookies. I’ve finally vowed that I will not read a “Christian” book unless it has cuss words in it (Anne Lamott, etc.)
While we lived in the Houston area, I became less and less impressed with Joel Osteen. After he bought the old Summit and turned it into his church, he plastered the words “JOEL OSTEEN MINISTRIES” in gargantuan letters across the front of the building — with the “Joel” part being extra big. Hey, Joel — IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU.
Thank you. So many people don’t understand why I am critical of Joel Olsteen. Many of those people read your blog. You explained it perfectly.
I fear that we prosperous American’s will have a hard time looking the poverty stricken of the world in the face on judgement day. The last thing we need is somebody telling us to “get more!”
We also need to be careful of making rich Christians feel guilty though. There is nothing wrong with successful people who happen to make a very good living. The problem I think comes in when you see them living in the million dollar home and driving the $100,000 car. Sorry, but that is just wrong. It’s not a grey area. It’s not about driving a Mercedes or a Yugo. It’s about common sense.
I provide financial planning services through one of the world’s largets insurance and investment companies. People from all walks of life come into my office everyday. Some are millionaires, some unemployed with no savings to speak of. Regardless of income, most do not feel comfortable where they are. They “need” just a little more.
As I help people save, and buy insurance products to protect their loved ones, I try to keep two things in mind for myself and my clients.
1) What can I do to help people worry less? Jesus tells us in Matthew that we are not to worry, that God will provide abundantly if we depend on Him.
2) A primary theme of Philippians is to be content in our circumstances. How can I help people be more content with what they have?
There are a lot of Biblical principles regarding money. But these two principles concerning our attitude speak the most loudly to me.
“The Church began as a Jewish movement in Jerusalem, became a philosophy in Greece, an institution in Rome, a culture in Europe, and a business in America.” Quote attributed to Lars Enarson in Sept./Oct. 2006 Lamplighter.
I quoted Gandhi on my blog today. He had some powerful words on this topic.
Thanks for your extensive compilation on this topic - it is needed and received from my end.
Now that I’ve slept - on Lectureship this year…. My No. 1 highlight (of many) was Don McLaughlin’s class on building a diverse church. This is absolute MUST listening for everyone - can’t recommend it highly enough. Two surprise highlights - 1) Don had us partner up with the person sitting next to us for a community building exercise - my partner was a wonderful man I’d never met before - Ken Cope. I attempted to stay on task and not gush about how much I appreciate you Mike, but, maybe I should have gushed after the unfortunate lunch incident I just read about 2) Glad I got to introduce my dad to you before the Missional workshop.
Two nuggets from that Missional workshop came late in the day. Pat’s comments on two strong community/missional activities that we should embrace - our Accapella singing and weekly observance of the Lord’s Supper; and, Charles Mattis’ concluding remarks were well worth the numb backside by 4:30 pm.
Mike,
Thanks for this post and thanks for laying it out.
Spending time with faithful believers at various economic levels is a good way to become immune to this weak gospel of wealth. One thing I find in common between rich Christians and poor Christians who are actually submitting their lives to Jesus (in other words, being a ’successful Christian’) is a sense of contentment and peace. They aren’t bitter because they are poor by some arbitrary standard, and those who seem rich aren’t busy trying to justify themselves. These Christians are content and at peace with themselves and their God who sustains them. Truly inspiring. On the contrary, the gospel of wealth makes people discontent, always wanting more. An insatiable appetite, that is the fruit of the gospel of wealth.
-Russ
I have friends and family who are very enamored with Joel Olsteen because he is so positive and because he is not a “guilt you into what you should do” type preacher. From the little I have seen of him, he is a bit too corny for me. But, I saw him on Larry King live one night and was impressed how he was never flustered, even witht he most pressing of questions. He was very postive. I can see in a world where the negative is touted constantly (and sometimes Christians are the worst at this) why people are drawn to him. I am not sure “doom and gloom” is much better than “health and wealth” when it come to representing our risen Savior.
Sorry, I didn’t have a chance to finish my comment earlier. Please excuse my double comment.
Gandhi said that “the world has enough for the needy but not for the greedy.” These are both powerful and scary words for me to hear.
I think the issue of wealth is one issue where the church has become totally, completely, and overwhelmingly influenced and overtaken by the views of the world.
We live in an age of unprecedented wealth and poverty. How can this be? It’s quite simple. Our economic system is set up in a way that the rich get richer and the poor even more poor. According to Larry James, there are more people in poverty now than anytime in the last 50 years. 2/3 of the Texas children on free insurance have been kicked off in the last 6 years. The minimum wage hasn’t changed in the last 9 years. The list goes on and on and on and on. This hurts my heart so much.
To try and keep it short, I think the Christian response MUST be two-fold:
1) Carefully and deeply examine our own lives and spending habits to see if we are living in simple and non-greedy ways.
2) Make it a priority to stand up for those who are beaten up and crushed under the strain of the way our economy works.
Only when we have done both of the above can we begin to make a dent in the materialism and waste that so often overtake our churches.
May God grant us strength and courage for this unpopular and uneasy journey to simplicity and justice.
SG - at the risk of sounding like a bullhorn for Lectureship - let me challenge you to listen to Stephen Johnson’s sermon from the recent Lectureships on Monday night. No “doom and gloom” there - just the message of Jesus - but definitely a sharp contrast to JO. The danger of JO is that “staying positive” and “if it ain’t workin’ you’re not prayin’ hard enough” are not really Gospel messages. Health and wealth is definitely a more user-friendly sermon to the Christian consumer, and many consumers drive (n some instances) 90 miles to hear JO every Sunday, but is that Jesus’ message?
“rich get richer and the poor even more poor”
Sorry Chris, that is just a sound byte that sounds good on the surface but is far from factual.
There is something called personal responsiblity that many people choose not to grasp. Something called hard work as well is something that today’s society seems to want to shun. It’s all about what others and Govco can do for me instead of what can I do myself.
Didn’t get to finish that comment.
Osteen speaks to people who want to hear that God wants for them what they want. Thats an easy sale to those who came up being told that to love God you have to SUFFFER SUFFER SUFFER!!! I wonder if this current fad of consumeristic Christianity is a back lash from the olf fire and brimstone era.
And for the record I don’t think “health and wealth” or “doom and gloom” are sound doctrine at all…and I don’t think you will find either of those preached by Mike. Kent, I would LOVE to hear Stephen Johnson’s sermon from lecturship! I think I came across as an osteen fan in that first comment which I am not. That is what I get for commenting before I eat my shredded wheat!
When any ministry screams the minister’s name, it bothers me. Have you watched the movie “The Gospel”? It speaks to this. It’s easy to get caught up in making a name for yourself instead of seeking to serve Jesus.
As to the comments about buying “Christian” books that have cuss words in them, I totally disagree. Anne Lamott has been a driving force behind the vileness associated with the extreme left winged Christian radicals. I bought a book of hers on the recommendation of someone I trusted and felt used and dirty when I finished reading it. She encourages hatred for those who disagree with her oh so liberal minded philosphy. For her being open minded means being open to her personal interpretations of life. Honestly, I felt very guilty and filthy after having read her book.
As with all things outside the holy scriptures, one must take it with a grain of salt realizing humans express what is important to them as “their message.” I put Lamott in the same category as Osteen. Both has their own personal message in which they appear to have high jacked scripture.
Tim-
That is exactly the kind of incompassionate attitude that too many Christians show towards those who have less. That is not just a “sound byte” for me but something that I have learned from personal experience.
As much as most of us who were born into white, middle-class families would like to believe, we did not “earn” all that we have gotten. Most of us have parents and circumstances that have helped us get where we are today, many of which we don’t even consider as a part of our success in the world.
I was taught to read at age 4. I have met children who cannot read at the age of 12.
I was encouraged and even forced to do homework and work hard in school. I have met children who were not allowed to do any schoolwork at home.
What do you say to these kids? Too bad? Work harder? Wait, let me guess: “pull yourself up from your bootstraps…” Sorry, but it’s not that easy.
And what do you say to the single mother that works full-time at minimum wage and makes a gross income of less than $11,000/year? Shouldn’t have had sex? Should be married? Shouldn’t have dropped out of school?
Those may all be true, but they don’t put food on the table.
I am not advocating that we give hand-outs to everyone in need. But your logic is flawed if you think that a simple “personal responsibility” will do the trick.
Thanks for the clarification SG - understood. Tim - I used to filter my stats through Rush, and finally grew tired of it after a decade. The meaningful fact is - Barna says 90% of Christians don’t give much, and he also says roughly 4% of an average Evangelical church’s annual budget go toward helping the poor - so, maybe, just maybe the consumer-driven church of today has substituted the message of JO and Limbaugh for Jesus. Jesus had quite a bit to say about money and the poor - and I don’t recall “get a job loser” as being one of his words. Sorry for the frankness - but I think it’s called for. Thanks again Mike.
Hmmm… “your best life now” I was under the impression that our best life was the one after this one… the resurrected one… Oh well — I guess you can’t argue with a book title!
Victor — I like the quote… very true
Tim - read “The Working Poor” (David Shipler)
I think it will give you a lot better picture of people who are working their butts off but just can’t cut it because of the economic system we have in place. I agree there is a level of personal responsibility to every situation, but there is so much more that holds people back for which they have no control over.
“Person responsibility” bothers me a lot. We use it on people below us, but never on ourselves or people above us. How much of my life am I personally responsible for — How much of it was given to me by my parents?
Mike,
After reading your blog today and reading the entire Time article, I came away with a different response than I had anticipated. My thinking is that we should not take sides for or against Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Jim Wallis or anyone else mentioned in this article. by doing this we are constantly comparing ourselves. It is almost as if we (mostly CoC) are constantly trying to position ourselves. I think it may because the Church of Christ is trying to overcome a lousy “self image.” The answer is not to do a series on “How the Church Envisions Itself,” but get back to the main principles of the Restoration Movement. A driving question might be, “What would it look like for the church to become the Body of Christ in the 21st?”
BTW - This edition of Time Magazine also had a very interesting article on Special Education funding.
Kent, who says I listen to Rush? As a friend of mine pointed out to me, the implication of that worn out battle cry of class warfare is a cause and effect relationship that does not exist, since economic output is not a zero sum game.
I am also not saying that we, as Christians and followers of Christ should not help others. What I am saying is that the answer is not Govco. It’s not forcing others to help others which is what those in Govco want.
Bottom line is that the old line “Rich get richer and poor get poorer” is simple politics and class warfare. It is unproven and not factual in the least.
I like what Solomon has to say in Ecclesiastes 5:8-20
I make the mistake of thinking I’m average for Christian wealth, which means I’m OK, right? The problem is, I am not. I have a home, a car, a business, a bank account, IRAs, TV, satellite, computer, etc.. Shucks, I even have a financial statement.
What was it that spurred the incredible growth of the church from Jerusalem?
Was it the miracles? No, they had seen them for 3 years.
Was it the message? (Jesus, the son of God, crucified for our sins?) No again, our message is, or certainly should be, along the same lines.
Was it magnificent buildings and highly utilized religious complexes? No, we have them but they didn’t have much aside from the synagogue.
Was it the highly educated doctorates delivering eloquent speeches? No again, they were uneducated (although Spirit-led).
Maybe, just maybe, part of it was the believers sharing, having everything in common, making sure there were no needs. They cared enough to give of their wealth to total strangers. Mother Teresa proved the world notices self-sacrifice in our generation. Would the world sit up and take notice if we were selling our investments to feed the poor, even if it was limited to our brotherhood? Probably. How far am I from being willing to have everything in common with my brothers? Maybe I don’t promote wealth as a side-effect of Christianity, but I tolerate it well in my own household. Most folks, I would guess, who are capable of reading this blog, have more money in their computer than the true “average” Christian lives on during several months or years.
We are wealthy, my brothers and sisters. We are very, very wealthy, financially speaking. Could I do with less and give more? Hmm.
Where is the church growing fastest if not in the poorest parts of the world? I wonder why that is?
DOES GOD WANT ME TO BE RICH while others in the body are going without food or medical attention?
I can’t even ask that question without feeling guilty…
Mike- I apologize for the rambling and taking up space.
One line in the article really caught my eye……..they said 61% of the Christians they surveyed said they believed God wants people to be prosperous. I just cannot accept that………..really? Have we screwed the Gosple up that bad? Surely their survey is faulty in some area. It just doesn’t jive with “take up your cross and follow me”.
DU
or maybe even Gospel…..my bad.
DU
Two people looking for jobs. One becomes homeless the other finds the job of his/her dreams. Which one is blessed and why? Do we use worldly gain as spiritual blessings and look down on those “less fortunate”? spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Is the American dream a lie?
I believe the problem in America is that we are more determined to get the government to help the poor than we are determined to help the poor ourselves. It’s much easier to get the government to write them a check than it is to get out there and feed the hungry, clothe the needy and house the homeless ourselves. I believe in personal responsibilty, but not in the way it’s been portrayed here. I believe it’s MY personal responsbility to help in as many ways as I can. It’s not the government’s responsiblity. It’s mine.
Same song, next verse.
it is easy to point out people like Osteen but how are we diferent, have we sold all that we own and given it to the poor?
Snapshot, I agree 100%.
speaking of “a business in America”
The effectiveness of T— G– a- H– W— is fully guaranteed when the Presentation Kit plan is followed. The basic plan includes:
Distributing at least one book for each family and single adult
Encouraging family-time reading and discussion of the book
Preaching all four sermon outlines as recommended.
If you are not fully satisfied with the results of T— G– a- H– W— after twelve months, P———- P——– will refund the purchase price of your books.
All of this has reminded me of A.M. Burton. When I was a kid he was held up to me as an example of a rich man who got it right. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that he gave away 90% of what he made, kept Lipscomb afloat during the depression, fully supported the work of Marshall Keeble, as well as supporting many other efforts. I think it is great when people are blessed financially, but it all comes down to how the money is used. I think it might be a good idea to hear some positive examples of wealthy people who got it right. All this talk about JO is bit depressing.
Wow Tim! Thanks. I rarely get that on Mike’s blog. Mostly, I feel like the lone conservative ranger on this here patch of “cyberspace”.
You made my day!
Richard, you know I have seen people fall on some tough times and actually increase their giving and then see them prosper all the more. It’s really amazing when you see the spirit at work.
A Lady in our congregation said last year about Joel Osteen, “I don’t agree with his theology, but he looks so good in those suits.”
Didn’t we elect a president or two with that mentality?
Tim - I do believe it’s the government’s responsibility (to promote the general welfare of its people) to care for the poor. It’s both government and Christian responsibility. I’ve become very jaded about the Church’s willingness to help those in poverty. We spend so much money on ourselves, paying preachers, making our buildings look good — that almost none of it actually goes to sharing with those in need. Look at our church budgets — where does our money go? So little of it goes to revitalization the broken neighborhoods around us and giving people hope. (Numerous positive examples aside) the church has, for the most part, failed miserably. As long as we don’t have it together, I’m gonna let “Govco” (if that’s somehow supposed to be derogatory) do all it can. Maybe when the church steps up, the government can step back. But I don’t see that happening…
“to promote the general welfare of its people”….the “preamble” by definition is simply a statement of purpose. It is simply the overall purpose of the constitution to…among other things…”promote the general welfare”. It was to be used as a rule of law, why have the rest of the constitution? I challenge you to find any Constitutional scholar who would support using that statement as law.
Now that the Constituional lesson is out of the way, how in the world is it Govco’s responsibility to help the poor? If it is, how much should they help and who is defined as “poor”? Would it be right for me to point a gun at you and demand money from you to help the poor? If that is not right, how is it right for Govco to do that?
I find one aspect of this discussion of government aid vs Christian charity to be particularly telling…
Conservatives always lament being forced by the government into helping to those who need it - caring for the poor with a “gun” to their head. It is never the act of caring that’s the controversy. It is the irresistable taxation.
From a nonbeliever I would find that to be a legitimate argument and source of derision. However, as Christians, should our primary concern be our freedom to decide when and where and to whom to give aid, or the welfare of those that need the help? As a believer in a God who sacrificed his son for the welfare of the world, how can we put anything of our own (including our right to help when and where we want) before our concern for the welfare of our brothers and sisters in creation?
Personal libery regarding how to be benevolent is fine… but it can never trump the compassion that we feel for those who need the help. Our first concern should be that those in need are cared for, and only secondarily our own right to decide how to help and where to spend “our” money.
Our heart should break at the thought of those who live in poverty. It should ache much more so than any upset we feel at having to support social programs…
Well said Daniel - if everyone’s taxes were cut in half tomorrow - would a typical consumer-driven church’s budget toward the poor move from 3-4% (of total budget according to Barna) to 25% of total budget? Doubtful is an understatement. Look at the recent RE boom in America. People have used their new-found 100% increase in home equity to purchase custom RV’s, vacation condos, $75,000 outdoor kitchens, season tickets, and Ipods for their 3 year olds. Giving has not gone up measurably, and, where large gifts are made to churches, they’re often with stringent stipulations for development of a new gym or playground equipment, or custom estate for the pastor. Could Central Dallas’ Ministries inner-city apartment development get off the ground without “Govco” funding? No.
How much more money could be given to the poor WITHOUT Govco redtape, robbery and misused funds?
Jesus talked a lot about “laying up treasure in heaven.” If you look at those texts carefully and closely, what you find is revolutionary. The parable of the crafty manager and the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, both found in Luke 16, are all about economic theory. Both make the point that our task is to use what we have to touch the pain of the world. In so doing we provide for ourselves in an ultimate way. I know that Jesus was talking about a worldview when it comes to material things/money because the Pharisees who heard him turned their noses up at him because they loved money. Jesus tells them and us that we have to choose–God or mammon, peaceful coexistance between the too–no matter how much we would desire it to be so–is impossible.
I justify myself so often when it comes to my control over my stuff. So foolish of me. I own nothing. What I control is too often guided toward my own benefit. I am rich. I think God wants me to adopt a radical attitude toward myself and how I manage that reality in my own heart and life.
One last note, the continual debate about whether the church or the government should help the poor is a non-starter. The church, indivdiual Christians and the government at all levels should be involved in crafting a just, fair and compassionate society. Everyone is needed. The church can’t do it alone–scale of problems is too large. It seems clear to me that the church today won’t do it anyway. So everyone needs to be involved in the struggle for a better nation and world. I will continue to use my political influence to see policy benefit the poor. Why wouldn’t we want to do that? Government policy certainly benefits the rich and the corporate interests in our nation. Why not workers and students and the poor?
Tim, You are right that “to promote the general welfare of its people” is a statement of purpose. Many would argue that this would include helping citizens get out of poverty, not fear for their next meal, and not worry that the next medical bill could force their family into financial ruin. If our country were to democratically decide to create a living wage, where those who do work hard are guaranteed financial stability, would this be equivalent to the government “putting a gun” to our heads and forcing us to give to the poor? Personal responsibility does not have to be at stake in this discussion. And neither does the Christian response to the poor. This is not an “either/or” scenario. I would argue, however, that part of the Christian response to the poor should include helping to construct a system where people in our society do not need to depend on Christian charity to get by when they are willing to work 40 hours a week. Perhaps this is where we would disagree.
Sorry, Tim, but let’s be accurate here. Government waste on programs for the poor is miniscule compared to waste and graft benefitting corporate interests in this nation–i.e. all the recent revelations about lobbyists and the Congress. What you say here contributes to the urban myth that all government programs are wasteful. Take Medicare for example–not a program for the poor by design but for the elderly retired. The admin cost for Medicare is among the most efficient of any insurance program in the nation–that is what it is, an insurance program. Conservative estimates would have the US saving $45 billion annually if all health coverage plans (read private here) operated at this level of efficiency. Medicaid operates at a similar level of efficiency. The VA health plan does even better. It would be helpful if we let the rhetoric go and just kept to the facts if we are going to discuss these matters. If you don’t want the government involved in helping people, fine. Just say that. But don’t misrepresent the facts or the outcomes of effective public efforts.
I’m sorry we don’t agree on this, but I happen to have much more faith in God’s people than I do with Government.
To say “the church alone can’t do it” says alot. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
And in answer to “Why wouldn’t we want to do that (use my political influence to see policy benefit the poor)?” My answer would be because the government has proven itself ineffective in caring for poor and the needy. Government isn’t all knowing and all seeing (regardless of your thoughts on the NSA). I simply have more faith in God’s people doing what’s right than in government doing what is scriptural.
Why not use your influence to see policy changes in the thinking of modern day churches?
We watched that new series “Jericho” last night. After the bomb went off, some of the citizens were fight and screaming out, “What is the mayor going to do to help us.” That’s the mind set of a whole generation.
Wouldn’t a more Christ like approach have beenl to say, “What can we all do to help each other.”
It’s a liberbal mind set that says “You can’t do it, you must depend on the government to do it.” That endears us to government. Not to God.
No wonder the churches are failing, we are teaching the lost that the government is far more dependable than the church.
Snapshot, What can the church do to help working people and their families not depend on charity to get by? In your opinion, what should the church’s response be to people who make minimum wage? Should it be to fill in the gaps? Giving food, money, and free healthcare for these people? Should we support the idea that they will continue to need to depend on charity? If the answer is to help those people advance in the system and get better paying jobs, then what about the next person who takes the minimum wage paying job? Just questions that I would like your thoughts on, or anybody else who happens to agree with the statement you just made.
Mike:
Four million copies doesn’t even begin to describe it. This notion has seeped so fully into our culture, especially our churched cultures, that we now speak of ‘blessing’ and ‘being blessed’ in such an offhanded way as to suggest that God really is conerned about meeting our wildly inflated expectations. We seem to believe that God really is micromanaging the events of this world so that I can have an extra 20k/yr in salary, or own that lovely dream house in the suburbs, or find a better parking place at Wal-Mart … and that these things and others like them constitute God’s ‘blessings’.
I hear casual statements like, “Oh, it was just such a blessing to find all the kids’ school clothes at that 20%-off sale! God just worked that out so wonderfully.”
But I never hear anybody say, “I’m just so thankful. I pray every night and thank God that people in the Guatamalan sweatshops are willing for to work for such low wages so I can afford to put my kids through private school.”
We have church ’stewardship’ programs that tout a cause-and-effect relationship between giving and financial blessing. And book after book suggesting that if we will just believe God’s promises we’ll receive more than we already have. Just think, if that widow in the temple had known God was going to make her rich, she might’ve given that penny of hers a mite bit earlier.
I have an idea. I’ve decided to let God off the hook for awhile. I’m willing to forgo all of these blessings — both for me and my wealthy/successful nation. In the meantime, let’s allow God to go and ‘keep his promises’ to someone else. I’m willing for him to start in Darfur and begin blessing those who live daily under the threat of genocide. Or maybe God could provide the One Billion People who don’t have clean drinking water with their “Best Glass of Water Now.” Or God should feel free to go and quadruple the salary of the billion folks living on a dollar-a-day. Maybe after that’s done I can start concerning myself with how much God needs to bless me.
It’s not just our understanding of money and finances and blessing that’s screwed up. It’s our whole picture of God and his world.
Sorry if I posted twice. Having some delay on my network. I don’t mean to take up space/bandwidth/time/etc….
Don’t y’all hate it when your mind goes faster than your fingers?
It is true that the more we give, the more God will bless us to give?
Just a thought,
Chris Gallagher
Matt,
#1 Make sure that we as a church quit preaching this “God wants you to be wealthy” mantra. Just because we are doing without some things doesn’t mean we are needy. I’m driving an 8 year old car. I’m doing without some things others call necessities. But that doesn’t make me needy, it makes me a person who must live on less.
#2 The families we know are struggling should be taken care of by the church and family. Not hand outs, but true help. Give responsibilities for the family to do that gives the help a sense of worth. Not charity. You keep saying “depend on charity”. Could you stretch your mind enough to see that this type of mentality traps people?
#3 The church I attend regularly helps families with medical bills, groceries, light bills, water bills, clothing needs, etc. We also don’t pay a preacher. We have three men who give their time to serve from the pulpit. As a result of this type of mentality, countless “needy” people have come to know Christ and the church as the fulfiller of their needs. They’ve learned to lean on the Lord, not lean and depend on the government. And we are just a small church. 250 members. We had a family who needed help with back to school clothes. I didn’t run to DHR and ask for a voucher. I went to a local store with a list of sizes and bought two little boys a couple back to school outfits, socks, underwear, shoes, etc. Result: family and especially children see the God and his people as the place to receive what is needed.
Just imagine what a huge mega church could do. How many families it could help.
Instead of having the mind set that the help begins with the government, why not believe in God’s power to empower His church to do His work.
I mean really be His hands and feet.
What I’m reading on this post is mentality based on several generations of having more faith in everything else than God and his people. We (the church) have really screwed up.
Mike:
Thanks sooo much for posting this. I was wondering if you would upon seeing the article myself.
It is such a relief to see Christianity still being taught and lived out in some.
Looking for “truth” in all the wrong places. Joel offers ” your best life now, others offer purpose and yes, Jabez’s Prayer tells us we can increase our territory. Government welfare plans offer funding for disadvantaged, undereducated and unmotivated (all different groups). Individual Responsibility is the key. Hope comes from Jesus and the Cross, that’s the way God made it. There is no magic dust. Take care of the people’s physical needs and then you have a shot at thier true need, relationship with God. Forget the gimmicks, help people with food, shelter and clothing when you see a need and teach someone to help someone when you have the opportunity. Use the governments programs as part of how you help people for the kingdom of God.
Larry, you are right the scale of the problem is enormous and we must use all the assets available to help people.
Snapshot, What your church is doing sounds wonderful, and it is great that you are helping fill in gaps for families, while modeling the way of Christ. I go to a similar church. A couple of more questions. You mention under #2 that you are not providing charity, but true help. But then under #3, you discuss your church paying for “medical bills, groceries, light bills, water bills, clothing needs, etc”. Again, I would like to say that what your chuch is doing sounds Spirit-filled. I am not trying to provoke you (although part of me wants to since you questioned my ability to stretch my mind), but how does #3 correlate with #2? Is this not charity? Charity is good, but what is your church doing to help people not depend on charity (aka justice)? What can your church do to help a single mother who is making $11,000 working full time on minimum wage (as Chris mentioned earlier)? You can offer charity. But how are you offering justice, so that people making minimum wage do not have to depend on hand outs to get by?
Amen to J. Shaw! Everybody…..yes EVERYBODY needs to read “The Irresistible Revolution” by Shane Claiborne. But, don’t read it unless you are ready and open to changing your perspectives on wealth and money. For example, he asks: (my paraphrase since I don’t have the book in front of me) Why don’t we put as much emphasis on Jesus saying “Sell all you have and give it to the poor” as we do him saying “You must be born again.” ? If you are into religion or institutions instead of discipleship, you won’t like this book. But you may need it. I sure did!
DU
Tim - Okay, I’m pointing a gun at your head forcing you to give to the poor. I’m holding another gun at you forcing you to help build the roads that you drive on. I’m holding another gun to your head forcing you to give money to our national defense (technology, soldiers). I’m holding another gun to your head forcing you to provide money for the fire department and the police. I’m holding another gun to your head forcing you to… Get my drift, yet? These are ALL for the “welfare” of our citizens. It’s fine if you want to throw government out of everything, say so — but I see all of this as “welfare” and can’t see justifying one “welfare” need over another.
Just because a government program does not provide direct benefit to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t promote the general welfare. (In fact, targeting poverty, in my opinion, will have positive effects on a stronger economy as a whole.)
And I’m feeling a bit of arrogant attitude coming from you (re: “the constitutional lesson”). If you want to have a conversation about government’s role, great. Just don’t blow it off with the snappy remarks.
What can your church do to help a single mother who is making $11,000 working full time on minimum wage (as Chris mentioned earlier)? You can offer charity. But how are you offering justice, so that people making minimum wage do not have to depend on hand outs to get by?
What can *anyone* do in this situation? If you only have the skills to get a minimum wage job, and you can’t make ends meet, you’re going to have to get help from somewhere. What does “justice” have to do with it?
Depending on charity and accepting help from time to time are a totally different train of thought.
I’ve been in a position of needing this help before so I know from which I speak. I’m sorry if the “stretch your mind” comment came off offensive. I just know this from both perspectives and know how the belittling terminology can make one stear clear of the church. “Charity” has been made to be a “bad” term among those who need help. I’ve heard over and over again from families in need, “I don’t want charity, I just need a little help.” So it’s not the same Charity that we as a church know from Corinthians.
Being made to feel as if I was having to depend on charity made me feel belittled, unworthy and useless. But accepting some help to (as you say) “fill in the gaps” made it seem much different. Remember we are fulfilling their mental, spiritual and physical needs. So the terminology is a big deal.
As for “justice” I believe that not all folks are going to be justified financially on this earth. They weren’t in the days of Jesus and so I doubt it happens in today’s materialistic society.
But what did happen in the days of Jesus and I’m confident can happen in today’s society is that we can show people the love of Christ through the church and it’s willingness to accept people regardless of their income and need and trying to help them with those needs.
Snapshot-
If all churches were doing what they should be, we would never have to talk about the govt. helping. Alas, they are not. So what do we do? I say use every resource available to help people get help.
Lisa-
Justice is a place like Central Dallas Ministries who would help that single mother gain some skills that would help her get a job that would pay more than the $11,000 mentioned.
Why does the Old Testament talk about giving 10% back to God? Sounds like a “tax” to me! Maybe because when left to our own human nature, we will give nothing! We are selfish, selfish, selfish people & that includes me!!!! I’m paying off serious debt as a result of my selfishness. Now I don’t care if my money goes to the gov’t or to the church - as long as part of it gets to the poor. The BEST option would be giving it to the poor directly, but we all know ourselves better than that! We SHOULD be doing it, we DON’T do it & SOMEBODY has to help!
But that’s charity, not justice. Anything you do for someone — and they don’t pay you for it — is charity. If it’s food, or schooling, or whatEVER — it’s charity.
And that’s not a bad thing.
Chris,
What do we do? Beg God to show us the ways to reach the hearts of believers so that we may do His work without making people dependent on other things other than Him. Also, show us the way to help lower the volume of people like Joel O. who are defeating the work.
In the mean time, open your eyes (my eyes) to what we (I) can do. If you choose to do something different from me……OK.
This whole conversation just makes me sad because it sounds like many have lost faith what God wants to do through the church.
Beaner,
I believe that someone should be me and anyone else who is willing.
And I do care if the money goes to the government or the church. I have much more influence of what happens within my own church than I do with big government.
I beg all of you to not give up on what God calls us to do through the church. Please, please be open to what He has called us to do. Don’t wait on “somebody” to do it. DO IT!
Lisa, I’m glad you asked. I think what Chris just mentioned is one component of justice. Another component in my opinion requires the recognition that the jobs that are currently minimum-wage jobs such as janitors, fast food and Walmart employees, etc. are all jobs that are necessary. A “just” society would enable the people that work these jobs to make a “living wage”. There are many resources that could discuss a living wage better than me, but in short, this is the idea that anyone who works hard and full-time should have enough money, healthcare coverage, etc. to be able to provide for their family. This is not currently the case. Helping people advance on to better jobs is helpful for the individuals, and education is good in itself in my opinion. But we are always going to need janitors. Hard-working janitors should make a living wage. Churches can fill in the gaps by giving people a hand, but wouldn’t it be great for these individuals and families if they didn’t have to depend on this every month? A “living wage” for all citizens requires the government passing laws. Christians, as concerned citizens and members of this society, can help pursue this.
Snapshot, you might be right in saying that not all people will be justified financially while on earth. But should this stop us from trying? Should we avoid justice so that we can increase charity? We can show people our love, by pursuing both justice and charity.
From a purely personal experience perspective, the pursuit of justice hinders charity in today’s society.
The problem is that most of us feel like it’s “our money” and so we want a say in how it’s being spent. What if we saw it as “God’s money” and if He chooses to use the goventment to allocate His money, then so be it. Don’t you think God has an influence on His money whether it’s through the church or through gov’t?
I also saw Joel Osteen on Larry King and decided that night I would never watch him again. Yes, he is positive~~~~~~ But……… he would not take a stance on ANYTHING. No wonder he has tens of thousands in attendance~~
just my opinion
lee
Perhaps, but He also has given us the ability to see what the government has done in the past and make decisions based those failures.
Yes, I agree with premise that the church hasn’t done all it can do, but I have more faith in God’s people to recover from failure than for the government to reform from failure. You are correct, it’s not my money, it’s God’s. And I choose to give more of it to the church and less of it to the Government. Oh, that’s right, I don’t have a choice. The government takes it whether I like what they are doing with it or not.
That’s all from me today. I gotta get more focused on the work I must accomplish today. So that I don’t become more needy.
God help us all in service to Him.
Who’s giving up on the Church or suggesting the Church should do nothing and “Govco” do everything? If your church has given up on giving to the poor, go find a new church or change it. Over-generalizations, mimicking right-wing talking heads that sound good on paper, and a belief the government is nothing more than a thief certainly won’t help anyone. It’s a big problem that requires both entities.
Test
Ok..for some reason, the post I keep trying to make is not showing up. Not sure whSnapshot, great points. You are correct.
No “rhetoric” here. Just facts. Smaller organizations do more good and have less waste than the huge behemoth that is Govco. Why is it that when people don’t agree with something it’s called rhetoric.
I never said it was either/or. My point is that should I be forced to give money to help the person on welfare to get a sex change or to have an abortion? I wonder how many here would support items such as that? When you leave it to Govco, that is what you will get.
Ok…not sure what I was typing that would not show up but, anyway.
Snapshot has made some excellent points. Kudos.
I guess I go back to limited Govco which is what our founders began. Not this huge monster we have today that we keep feeding with these so called “social programs”.
Actually, snap said it all in that I have much more faith in private organizations such as churches to do far, far more with far less than Govco ever could. Less waste and more help to those who actually need it.
Ah…the right to “choice”. Funny, but it seems like some people want the gov’t to make moral choices for us…until it comes to our money!
What? Didn’t anyone eat their shredded wheat this morning???
Just a question for Tim and Snapshot….
Seems there is a lot of “the government shouldn’t legislate morality, as pertains to giving, there’s separation of church and state” thinking in your words about social welfare. Ok.
But then, I wonder….do you support the congressional initiative to define marriage as between a man and a woman only? Or how about politics re: abortion? Do you want the government to legislate morality on those terms???
I often find a disconnect in the separation of church and state mentality of anti-welfare Christians when the marriage/abortion issues are surfaced, and am just wondering where you stand on church/govt. issues as a whole.
And, Tim, a note that private organizations, often receive the MAJORITY of their funding from the government, so it’s not as cut and dry as you’d like to make it. They’re inextricably linked, like it or not.
mommyham, I never said Govt. should leglislate anything moral. Not once did I say that. I don’t think they should. If anything, it should be done on a state or local level but even then I don’t agree with it. To use your example, there are MUCH more important things Govco could be doing rather than messing around with a Marriage ammendment or anything silly like that.
Before anyone jumps up and down and cites murder or stealing as something moral the Govt. already makes laws for…that is different. That is one person taking away the rights of another. Completly different.
Can we just please go back to talking about sex? It was less complicated.
But Deana - we could apply so much of today’s discussion to sex! Just substitute the word “sex” for “money” in these comments - it’s actually pretty funny!
lol Deana.
Plus, more fun.
I guess I’m a bit surprised by the tack you’re taking here, Tim. In your previous posts on this thread, you’ve suggested that government is wasteful and untrustworthy. But the other day when you were discussing torture, you made almost the reverse argument–that the government is trustworthy and efficient.
I’m trying to understand a feature of your arguments (and Snapshot’s and a few others’). Tell me if I’m characterizing this properly. The arguments that you and several others are making here paint a clear boundary between the secular (political, governmental, etc.) and the sacred (moral, ethical, justice-oriented, etc.). The positions you’re articulating suggest that the two are utterly separate, can’t comment on one another, and should remain divided. So torture (because it’s carried out by the government) has no particular moral implications for the believer; it’s about protecting the country and that’s in the purview of the secular alone. Charity (because it’s carried out by–or should be carried out by–the church) has no implications for the government; the secular merely sullies it through graft, corruption, etc. Therefore, when the government holds a “gun to your head” to pay for a war or congressional salaries or whatever (which could also help to take care of a lot of poor people if I didn’t have to pay taxes for them and the corruption associated with them), then that’s just government and okay. When it holds a “gun to your head” to help poor kids go to college or provide health insurance for poor children–or your example of a person on welfare getting a sex-change (the last example is certainly less common than the first two, but clearly these are “charities” you might not support–though there are certainly others you would), then that’s government overstepping its bounds. Is that right?
In other words, do you just have a particularly strong reading of “render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things of God”? That would certainly explain the disparity between your posts on these various threads…
My guess is that this point of interpretation is the point of disagreement for many people on this thread (and also on the torture thread): that we have a fundamental disagreement about what belongs to whom and what constitutes the responsibilities of “Caesar” and God.
Beaner: kind of like adding “…Under the Covers” to hymn titles.
I’m sorry Bill but where in torture post did I make those comments? Just trying to keep on target here. Thanks.
Yes, I beleive the two should be separate. A Govco program to take my money and pay for someone elses child to go to College is so much different from Govco taking my tax dollars to pay for a road or to provide for Police and Fire. You are presenting a straw man.
Getting back to the original JO discussion… my bible class watched a video lecture by Beth Moore this morning (please, let’s not get into a debate over Beth Moore!) in which she commented that anyone who has the financial capability of buying a book (any book!) and enough education to read it is extremely wealthy in comparison to a large part of the world’s population. We are so insulated from the reality which most people in the world face that we have no perspective on what it is to be “wealthy”. The discussions in our churches about wealth would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad- We ARE wealthy, and whether we drive a BMW or an old run-down Honda is simply splitting hairs. Years ago, I read an article in “Reader’s Digest” where the author mentioned that most people in America take for granted luxuries that the wealthiest kings of the past could only imagine. But somehow that’s not enough for us- we want a hot tub too!
I found this article profoundly interesting. I have been searching for quite some time for articles about Joel Osteen and his “Christian” views. I was raised and still am Church of Christ and all of my father’s family is Church of Christ and my mother’s family really doesnt have much religion at all they are not atheist they just dont have religion. My mother was raised by her grandparents who were Baptist, eventually when she met my dad she converted to Church of Christ, but it seems that in the past couple of months she has begun to go back to her roots. I noticed a couple of months ago that she was watching Joel Osteen and she was beginning to believe that his sermons had a point and that maybe he was right about doing things for God to recieve blessings. I completely disagree however. I believe that yes God does bless us, but not because we have done something to benefit him. What can we possibly do being born sinners to benefit God so much that he would give us blessings as rewards. I am of the opinion that God guides us through our lives if we allow him to and if we let him handle our problems and allow him to work in us then yes he does bless us but its not because of us. I do not agree with Joel Osteen’s “gospel of wealth” theology, I believe that its just something else that Satan has put before us to lead us astray from God’s path and truth. If we allow a man to tell us that when we do good deeds for God then we will benefit by being rich or being blessed with earthly materials, then we are allowing Satan to enter into our lives and take hold of us. The Bible tells us that we should not pride ourselves in our earthly possessions because they are not going to get us to heaven but to be happy with what we have because nothing on earth can compare to what Christ has prepared for us in Heaven. By focusing on doing good for God in order to recieve earthly “gifts” from God, we are allowing ourselves to be led astray. I just hope that people like my mother can see that people like Joel Osteen are not preaching the word of God.
Oh thanks Deana - worship music will never be the same for me again!
Wow. Lots of comments on this one, Mike.
First of all…I love me some Mike Cope. Awesome post, brother.
Second of all…I love me some Larry James.
And lastly…I have this awesome T-shirt that says
“I prayed the Prayer of Jabez and all I got was this lousy T-shirt”
So many interesting viewpoints . . .
We - as Christians - are to do all we can to help others. Sometimes, that means having a “group” in charge of it. Don’t we have someone in charge of the pantry and the clothing that the churches distribute to the neighborhood? The government is in a position to do this. We pay our taxes, and there are organizations in place to distribute the monies. Personally, I don’t understand how a person can support himself, let alone a family, making minimum wage. How do you get food and housing? It’s very sad where WE place our priorities. And yes, we do tend to look down on people, thinking they could do better if they’d just work harder. Think about the early Christians, selling all they had and distributing it. I think government subsidized programs are great - they may be misused but what isn’t. We all benefit from government programs - like our garbage being picked up. Need to think about all areas before making statements about handling everything ourselves. I don’t think we’d like it at all.
I too would like to get back to the original discussion. Sorry for diverting to my loathing for Govco.
I love the “I prayed the Prayer of Jabez and all I got was this lousy T-shirt” ! Classic!!
I beleive one only has to look in their church parking lot to see much of what he have being misused.
I didn’t have time to read all the comments prior to mine, but was I ever disappointed in our brother, Max, when he wrote an endorsement for Joel’s book!
Having read Joel’s book, I think it was fine for Max to endorse it. It is based on biblical principles and would probably be considered more on the order of a John Maxwell book. It is not N.T. Wright or John Stott, but of course it is not meant to be. It is for the person who is struggling with finding a directon in life. The seven principles which are universal to many books of this nature are:
Enlarge your vision
Develop a healthy self-image
Discover the power of your thoughts and words
Let go of the past
Find strength through adversity
Live to give
Choose to be happy
The secret of Lakewood is not Joel Osteen, it is their praise and worship led by Cindy Cruse-Radcliff. You may not agree with their theology, but they sure do know how to praise God!
Okay, this may also be a somewhat tangential… but, in considering just how much the church does and can do, let’s look at this on one of the most basic and telling levels. How much does your church pay the janitorial staff, the nursery staff, and some of the less recogizable support staff positions? I know that at many of the churches I’ve been to, these positions were held by people that really needed the money that they were working for. And, the vast majority of the time, they are paid minimum wage.
I have heard it argued for instance that the staff in the nursery shouldn’t be paid much since it should really be considered service anyway. But, since the church can’t find enough volunteers they’ll pay something just to keep it staffed - minimum wage. And so, those that really need the extra money migrate into those positions - grandmothers raising grandkids, single moms, kids paying their own way through college…
Christian charity and benevolence isn’t just about having a food pantry… or even paying an occassional utility bill. I’d like to think that no one on a church’s payroll, fulltime, ever has to walk into a welfare office. But, they do.
JO offers a little to much comfort to those Christians that are well off for my taste. Those of us blessed with abundance should be very uneasy about it… Wealthy complacence is cancerous to the soul.
Some of you may be aware that Joel’s older brother (formerly of Little Rock) helps him manage the ministry … most folks don’t know that he has a kid brother who’s just breaking into ministry with his own book …
(I already feel guilty about this.)
http://www.keithbrenton.com/images/MyBl